Hi all,

Here's hoping you can help. Not sure whether this is an XP problem or a hardware problem. Let me know if I need to post this elsewhere or you need more info.

Over the last few weeks my poor desktop has been crashing on an increasingly regular basis. I've downloaded, installed and run WhoCrashed, but it says:

"Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

No valid crash dumps have been found on your computer"

I've had a wide variety of error codes: 05, 21A, 24, 50, 7E, 7F, 8E (lots of these), 0A, C2 (SR.SYS), D1 (NV4_DISP.DLL and USBPORT.SYS), F4, FC and possibly others.

The crashes are frustratingly random. Sometimes I'll be able to use the computer for hours (a day at most) before it BSODs, sometimes it falls over almost immediately on bootup. It always POSTs and gets through to the Windows desktop, though, if only for a second.

I've run Memtest overnight and it came up with zero errors. Using DTIData Surface Scanner I've identified one hard drive (not the OS one) with bad sectors, but the bluescreens happen even without that being connected. The CPU is covered with a big heatsink and, according to the motherboard heat-monitoring program, never gets above 35 degrees C (95 F). I've looked at the Event Viewer and there's a number of Errors, but their timing doesn't necessarily correlate with the crashes. When it's had time to run, Avira found and quarantined one downloaded MP3 apparently containing the "EXP/ASF.GetCodec.Gen exploit" but the description on Avira's site seemed to class it as mostly harmless, and I can't remember listening to that MP3 anyway.

A while back I had a similar problem with the same computer which was fixed by applying the correct RAM timings (for some reason my motherboard decided that 5-5-5-12 made more sense than 5-5-5-18) but I've changed those and same results. I've set my motherboard to failsafe defaults (which helpfully got rid of USB functionality) and then to optimised defaults, but it hasn't helped.

While I can't guarantee that any given sequence of events or combination of programs will make it crash, it doesn't seem to like big, complicated things like Starcraft 2. It's more tolerant of smaller games like Recettear or Puzzle Quest 2, but I've had BSODs even just browsing (Firefox and Chrome), watching movies (MPC and VLC) or even when it's quietly torrenting (utorrent). It BSODs even when I've closed down all optional programs.

I think the problems started when I reseated my hard drives (can't remember the date, but I'd finished the Starcraft 2 campaign). I'd run out of power connectors and had bought a couple splitters to allow me to connect an extra internal drive, but I think something must have been wrong with one of them because the hard drive would intermittently disappear from the list in My Computer. Possibly as a result, it started showing bad sectors and losing data (again, this is not the OS drive and BSODs happen even when it's not connected). I rearranged things so that I could use the existing cabling and the drive no longer disappears, but the computer was much less stable, and has been ever since.

Suggestions for further diagnostic steps much appreciated. Will post logs etc on request. Thanks in advance.

Sadly, you've told us nothing about your computer, only that it is running XP and that you have so many devices connected, you have run out of power connections. At least that tells me we are talking about a PC and not a notebook.

You CPU temps look great - remarkable even. But this could still be a heat issue with some motherboard component, RAM or the graphics card. Make sure the interior is clean of heat trapping dust and dirt. With so many divices, good front to back air flow through the case may be restricted by many cables. You may need better cable managment to route cables so they don't interfer with good flow. You might also need to add more or bigger fans to your case. If the case does not support more or bigger fans, it may be time to get a different case.

Inspect the motherboard for bulging or leaking capactors. These tall soda can looking devices typically surround the CPU socket. Motherboards can be recapped, but generally it is cheaper in the long run to replace the board.

A failed, failing, or stressed power supply is a frequent cause of sudden reboots and freezes. Since it is apparent you have added several pieces of hardware to that system, you may have maxed out that PSU.

Hi dr1 and Welcome to D.A.L

Wow never see so many BSOD errors on one PC at the same time.
My first instinct if it was my PC would be to back up all my important files etc and do a clean reinstall
Is there some important reason why you want to try to work through and solve all those BSOD error?

Some BSOD'slike 0x00000005 relate to A specific problem is known to exist with Win XP SP2 and Server 2003 in combination with certain antivirus programs, firewalls, and similar software;
Some like 0x00000024 the nfts file system
BOSD STOP 0x0A, and 0x50 Errors relate to Hardware failure (memory, processor, or motherboard), Anti-virus software that is running on your computer or Drivers installed by third-party software.

Referance for those above here Troubleshooting Windows STOP Messages

Has you can see the list of possible causes are many so I ask again is there some reason you will not consider a backup of important data and a reinstall?

Having just posted shortly after Digerati (I was composing mine when he posted) and considering my comment with regard to the BOSD STOP 0x0A, and 0x50 Errors

His suggestion to check for a possible motherboard failure would perhaps be best to follow

Jim

Thanks for responding so quickly. Ironically the computer was stable for a whole night after I posted, but when I got home from work I was greeted by another BSOD (0A, for those keeping score).

Sadly, you've told us nothing about your computer, only that it is running XP and that you have so many devices connected, you have run out of power connections

That was silly of me, sorry. Distracted by storytelling.

I built the PC myself, so I need a second to dig out the names of the components. I can provide more specifics if need be.

Processor: Intel Q6600 (never overclocked)
Heatsink: Thermalright Ultra-120 (plus 12cm fan)
Motherboard: Abit IP35 Pro
Power supply: GTR 550W Modular
Ram: 4GB Corsair DDR2 XMS2 800 (4x1GB modules)
Graphics: 8800GT 512MB (It might have been factory overclocked, but not by me)
HDDs: Boots from a 150G Raptor, data stored on a 500G, 1T and 2 1.5T WDs. The 1 and 1.5T disks are from their Green range, I don't think the 500G one is.
Case: ICute UL-02SS, with 2 12cm case fans.

Can't see any melted capacitors, but I'll have a closer look shortly.

Is there some important reason why you want to try to work through and solve all those BSOD error?

That's doable, but I'd rather be sure that it wasn't all going to start up again before going to that effort. I've been thinking about going to Windows 7, and it's going to be a question of whether to persist with this hardware (which I will if it's software, or I can find and replace what's wrong) or getting a whole new machine (if it keeps misbehaving). I was hoping with this many error codes that it would be something identifiable (or at least easy to tell whether it was hardware or software).

With so many divices, good front to back air flow through the case may be restricted by many cables. You may need better cable managment to route cables so they don't interfer with good flow.

I admit the cabling is far from optimal, but I don't think it's quite bad enough to stop the air getting through.

I don't think I'm allowed to post links yet, but I've snapped a shot of my case layout and annotated it. Don't think I'm allowed to post images either, but if you Linkify this you can see what I see: yfrog.com/m9caseannotatedj

Is there any other testing software you can reccommend?

Originally Posted by dr1

Can't see any melted capacitors, but I'll have a closer look shortly.


That's doable, but I'd rather be sure that it wasn't all going to start up again before going to that effort. I've been thinking about going to Windows 7, and it's going to be a question of whether to persist with this hardware (which I will if it's software, or I can find and replace what's wrong) or getting a whole new machine (if it keeps misbehaving). I was hoping with this many error codes that it would be something identifiable (or at least easy to tell whether it was hardware or software).

If the motherboard looks OK you could try running in safe mode with network and see if any BSOD's occur then.
Whilst in safe mode try running some of the repair utilities

Firstly have you tried to carry out any repairs like using the System File Checker (SFC) utility?
If not the to use SFC (you will need XP installation disk for this). How to found here scannow sfc - LEARN how to use SFC.EXE (system file checker)

Now run the chkdsk utility?
To run chkdsk utility see here How to perform disk error checking in Windows XP
The instruction to run chkdsk from the command promt is chkdsk c: /f


Alternatively try running you PC from a Linux Live CD which run the OS from the CD and not from a Linux installation.
If no errors occur then it would help to rule out possible hardware problems.

Jim

One additional though I notice you are running 4GB of ram.

Windows XP has been known to encounter problems when running 4GB of ram with some hardware.

I haven't had chance to check of this is the case with your spec.

Could your try running with say 3GB of ram and see if the problems still persist.

Jim

With all of those different blue screens I agree with the reinstall even though we try to avoid suggesting that. You could spend more time troubleshooting and trying to fix it than reinstalling windows and your programs. In addition if after a successful reinstall you continue to have blue screens it would mean that your problems are almost certainly hardware related. A live version of Linux would be another good way to test your installation of windows which in some way you need to do because windows might be corrupted.

I'm concerned that this seemingly started to happen after installing the hard drive so I would first run chkdsk like Jim suggested.

If you are going to run 4 gb of ram I suggest that you upgrade to 7 64 bit but removing a stick is a good idea. In fact to further test your memory you could try going with one stick at a time but since Memtest passed I doubt that your memory is bad.

Remember to try only one thing at a time so that if the blue screens stop you know what the problem is.

With all of those different blue screens I agree with the reinstall

I don't. Blue screens are typically caused by hardware failure or driver issues. And while a corrupt OS can cause driver issues, it is better to eliminate the hardware first or risk losing all your data, or at least, putting your security months, if not years behind.

As noted above, bad power could be the cause so I would start by swapping in a known good power supply. I would also want to make sure the rest of the computer (not just the CPU) is getting adequate cooling since you said cable management is lacking. Perhaps blasting a desk fan into the open side of the case would help.

Sorry it's taken a while to get back here, I've been busy with work.

Also apologies for not being clear: the problems didn't start when I plugged in the hard drive, nor do they stop when I remove it. Chkdsk on the boot and page partitions doesn't find any errors. I used a slipstreamed XP SP2 disk to install, but SFC doesn't seem to like it. Case is already open. The Raptor's too hot to touch but it's got constant airflow around it as per the picture I linked above.

I don't have a spare power supply to throw in there. Is there a way I can check how much power things are consuming? Or a particular diagnostic LiveCD I can download to stress the power supply? How about one to check the motherboard?

I think my fiddling around has reduced the error rate, because for the last few days things have been more stable, as long as I don't actually try and use it for anything more than browsing/light gaming. Applications crash individually as opposed to always producing BSODs. The range of BSODs has shrunk as well: 50, 8E (mostly this one), 8F, D1, F4. Plus one D0000144 Unknown Hard Error. Does that give any hints?

I'm currently working through backing things up (moving as much as possible off c: drive) before reinstalling... unless anyone a firm objection?

The only way to see how much a device is consuming is to measure the consumption - and that is not something most users can do. There are devices you plug into the wall, then plug the PSU into the device and from there, you can see total consumption. You can then disconnect individual HDs or other devices and see how much total drops, but this is not easy either, or very reliable because a computer does not draw a constant amount of power. Below is my canned text for testing PSUs.

A reinstall may correct a corrupt driver, but will do nothing for failing hardware.
***

To properly and conclusively test a power supply unit (PSU), it must be tested under various realistic "loads" then analyzed for excessive ripple and other anomalies. This is done by a qualified technician using an oscilloscope or power analyzer - sophisticated (and expensive) electronic test equipment requiring special training to operate, and a basic knowledge of electronics theory to understand the results. Therefore, conclusively testing a power supply is done in properly equipped electronic repair facilities.

Fortunately, there are other options that are almost as good. I keep a FrozenCPU Ultimate PSU Tester in my tool bag when I am "in the field" and don't have a good spare power supply to swap in. While not a certain test, they are better than nothing. The advantage of this model is that it has an LCD readout of the voltage. With an actual voltage readout, you have a better chance of detecting a "failing" PSU, or one barely within specified ATX Form Factor Standard tolerances. Lesser models use LEDs to indicate the voltage is just within some "range". These are less informative, considerably cheaper, but still useful for detecting PSUs that have already "failed". Newegg has several testers to choose from. All these testers contain a "dummy load" to fool the PSU into thinking it is connected to a motherboard, and therefore allows the PSU to power on, if able, without being attached to a motherboard - great for testing fans, but again, it is not a true load or suitable for conclusive testing.

Swapping in a known good supply is a tried and trued method of troubleshooting, used for years even by pros. If you have access to a suitably sized, spare power supply, carefully remove the suspect supply and replace it with a known good one and see if the problem goes away.

I do not recommend using a multimeter to test power supplies. To do it properly, that is, under a realistic load, the voltages on all the pins must be measured while the PSU is attached to the motherboard and the computer powered on. This requires poking (with some considerable force) two hard and sharp, highly conductive meter probes into the main power connector, deep in the heart of the computer. One tiny slip can destroy the motherboard, and everything plugged into it. It is not worth the risk considering most multimeters, like plug-in testers, do not measure, or reveal any unwanted and potentially disruptive AC components to the DC voltages.

Note the required voltage tolerance ranges:

And remember, anything that plugs into the wall can kill. Do not open the power supply's case unless you are a qualified electronics technician. There are NO user serviceable parts inside a power supply.