Summary:
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I have a dual boot machine (WinXP, FedoraCore4) that has worked flawlessly for months and months, and now, suddenly in the last week or so it is freezing up so regularly that most of the time it does not complete the boot sequence for either OS.


The Facts:
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1. I have made no hardware or software changes to this machine in months.
2. Every time I boot up the machine, it makes it just fine to the boot loader screen where I can choose the OS (however this only takes a few seconds).
3. At the GRUB screen:
a) If I choose Windows (w/ Normal startup): the screen usually just goes blank/black and the system must be hard reset.
b) If I choose Windows holding F8 w/ Safe Mode: it freezes upon loading gagp30kx.sys.
c) If I choose Windows holding F8 w/ Last Good Configuration: it freezes right then on that selection and must be hard reset
d) If I choose Fedora, 9 times out of 10 it will freeze when it says “booting the kernel” on the first screen.
4. When Windows does let me in (rarely), the desktop is white and it asks me if I’d like to Restore my Active Desktop. Anything I do after that causes a freeze and the system must be hard reset.
5. When Fedora does let me in (1 out of ever 6 or 7 boots), I’m able to use the system for up to 30 minutes or so, before it either freezes or goes blank/black and must be hard reset.
6. I have 2 hard drives: HD1 has Windows and the MBR (or whatever you call it that references the OS locations) and HD2 has Fedora.
7. When I put in the Windows XP install CD to attempt to reinstall/repair, it freezes within 30 seconds, at the screen that says Set is Loading Executive Files, consistently.
8. When I put in the Fedora Core 4 install CD to attempt a reinstall/repair it freezes within the first few configuration screens, consistently.
9. I’ve attempted install CDs in both of my disc drives.
10. Both of the install discs work in other machines.
11. I’ve checked the motherboard carefully and can’t find any evidence of damage shown on www.badcaps.com
12. I’ve recently moved to a new apartment, but for weeks after moving in, my machine has worked fine (only in the last week has this scenario started).
13. When these symptoms started, it used to just freeze Windows with the “Restore Active Desktop” error, but then quickly progressed into a state that wouldn’t finish booting.
14. I recently removed the case cover to allow (what I thought) was more air flow. I wish I could tell the internal temps, but it won’t stay on long enough for me to run any programs.
15. There is no over-clocking done in this system
16. Specs: (tell me if you need more detailed info)
MB: MSI K8T Master-2 FAR (with only 1 processor)
CPU: Opteron 244
2 GIG RAM
2 HDs, 250 GB each
ATI Radeon 9800 graphics card


Comments:
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It seems pretty clear that this isn’t a software issue. I’ve read a lot of freeze-related newsgroup entries and the thing that seems the most likely is a heat-related problem. Suggestions online that have caught my attention include:
- Removing the cover of the computer can sometimes increase the temp because the fans, etc assume certain airflow (and I removed my cover).
- Some “goop” on my processor’s heat sink has been reduced (or something) and it’s over heating which causes the freeze.
- My graphics card may be over heating and causing the freeze.
- Additionally, the fact that this situation occurs within minutes (or sometimes seconds) of turning on the system makes me think it could be heat.

It may also be that HD1 has some sort of corruption of data that would affect the boot process, but still keep the data intact. I mention this because when I do get into Linux, I’m able to access the data on the NTFS file system just fine. Not sure.


Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated. Please tell me if there is someone else out there experiencing the same issue(s).

Thanks in advance.
Ben

Do you ever have a problem with the BIOS seeing the hard drive?

Do you ever get errors e.g. disk read error; operating system not found; no hard drive detected; etc.?

Or a black screen with blinking cursor?

Can you enter the BIOS setup? Are you familiar with flashing your BIOS?

How is your power supply? Is it strong enough? Check your internal power wires (especially any plastic connectors) for Hot Spots.

Does your processor get Hot? Warm? Cold?

To answer your questions jephree:
---------------------------------
1. Do you ever have a problem with the BIOS seeing the hard drive?
NO

2. Do you ever get errors e.g. disk read error; operating system not found; no hard drive detected; etc.?
NO

3. Or a black screen with blinking cursor?
Not with a cursor .. but sometimes when I select Windows to boot, I just get a blank/black screen.

4. Can you enter the BIOS setup? Are you familiar with flashing your BIOS?
Yes I can enter it. Yes I'm familiar with it .. but I'm not sure I want to do that yet. Can't it cause permenant damage?

5. How is your power supply? Is it strong enough? Check your internal power wires (especially any plastic connectors) for Hot Spots.
It should be plenty strong enough (always has been in the past). No hot spot that I could find.

6. Does your processor get Hot? Warm? Cold?
Seems to stay pretty cool. See below.

Here’s my latest:

1. I checked the CPU temp in the BIOS. It stays pretty consistently around 39 deg C … which doesn’t seem too bad. I think the Max for the Opteron 244 is 70 deg C. So, I’m going to dismiss the idea that the CPU is the source of the possible heat issue.

2. Focusing on the Graphics card (ATI Radeon 9800 Pro), I took it out of the machine and blew compressed air over it and the AGP slot. Enough dust came out of the card’s fan to choke a donkey. I also checked the card carefully for physical damage, but I could find nothing. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary with the AGP slot either. Same symptoms though when I put it back in and the fan was definitely spinning on it.

3. I tried swapping out the card with other ones at my house but nothing was compatible. I’ll stop by Fry’s on the way home today and get another one so that I can swap it and see if anything is revealed. If it doesn’t turn out to be the problem, I can always return the card. Though to tell you the truth, if it IS the card, I’ll be pretty pissed that a $350 graphics card had a problem after being used for only 1 year. If the problem persists with a new card, then I may not now much more … could be the MBoard … or the AGP slot or something.

4. I’ll also be picking up a new power supply from Fry’s to swap out and see if it makes a difference. If it doesn’t in the end, I’ll just return it.

Other than that, not much more to report … I’ve stripped out all the other components that aren’t in use, but to no avail. I’ve also confirmed that which IDE cables the HDs are on doesn’t make a difference.

I’ll post again tonight with my results of swapping the PSU and the results of swapping the G-Card.

However, IF it happens to be one of those things (PSU, Graphics card, or even MBoard) this really sucks. I would not have had any way of figuring this out before by observing any physical symptoms, in which case this forum thread may not help people in the future who have similar issues. Also, this MSI board, graphics card and PSU are supposed to be pretty good, I’ll be pissed if those things failed after just a year of use.

More to come …

Any thoughts?

Thanks for the update. You appear to know what you are doing & your detailed report of your process is a good troubleshooting guide for all of us!

If it is not a hardware problem the only other thought that I have is a BIOS boot block issue.

As to flashing: If you are certain that you have the proper BIOS it is a fairly safe operation to flash. The main failure point is that if you were to lose power during the flash. Many BIOS also have backup instructions. Within the download there should be a Read Me Text that usually covers this.

Well. I don’t know what to say. I swapped out the graphics card. Nothing.
Then, after a few minutes of cursing, I pulled out one of the gig sticks of RAM and turned it back on.

That fixed it.

The system booted up perfectly as if nothing had ever happened. I’m writing this post from the machine right now and I’m still in shock.
Looks like it had nothing to do with heat at all (maybe). So much for all of my focus on CPUs and GPUs. I guess somewhere in the back of my mind whenever I booted the thing up and it started with that “Memory Test” message (the one with a quick counter that seemed to signify everything was OK after it went through all the bits), I figured the RAM was fine.

For the record, the RAM I’m using is:

Patriot “PSDIG400ER” 1 GB sticks. It’s PC3200, 400MHz, Registered, and obviously a piece of #$%!@. The only reason I got it (and spent a fortune on it) was because it was advertised to be tested with/for the Opteron processor I have.
Clearly this stuff is like kryptonite; stay away from it.

Thanks for your input and suggestions (especially those of you who mentioned RAM ), I hope at least that this thread will be useful for others who face similar issues. Even now as I write this and watch the fans spin on this thing I still can’t believe it was the RAM, especially because of how it seemed to “progress” into a worse state over a short period of time, like I would imagine a heating issue would. Money well spent on a degree in Computer Science eh? Good thing I’m applying to law school soon.

I need a drink.

Thanks again for the details! Glad you got it going!



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