[rant-on]
I'm a little depressed here. I was checking one of my BOINC machines this morning and noticed AVG Anti-virus Free was announcing V8.0. I've been using AVG Anti-virus Pro on my main systems and did not see any new version announcements. A check at grisoft showed what is happening. I worry with what I see.

Many years ago - back in DOS days, McAfee AV was the greatest. But many abandoned McAfee for a new, slim and trim, upstart - Norton AV.

A few years later, many, ran to the new, slim and trim AVG as Norton/Symantec aggressively hogged more and more resources, refused to go away (uninstall) gracefully, and got too bloated with unwanted "features" - many claim it was junk "foisted" on our computers.

Security suites (which is they these anti-malware packages are) are great for novices who need complete protection now, do not know where to turn for help, how to build their own defense, or what is even needed (if that might be you, check out Cleaning Out Malware for some ideas). And I agree wholeheartedly that learning, setting up, and using a single user interface (UI) is much easier than using several. But once you get past the "look and feel", steps to set up your trusted zones in your firewall, set files and drives to scan, scheduling updates and scans is all pretty similar, regardless the product maker. I prefer to "roll my own" security suite - to pick and choose the best product from each category, based on my computing needs.

I recently left ZoneAlarm and ZAP after using them since... well, forever! I accepted combining a FW and AS in one package because those two critical defense systems are so dissimilar in function and design. When V7 came out, the downloads became huge, the full Security Suite, full of bloat and unwanted programs to foist and run on our systems, even when expecting just the firewall. I moved to something more slim and trim - with less arrogance. Security companies should not stoop to trickery for profit.

Am I going to have to move again? If you start the download process for AVG Internet Security, you will see a whopping 50.2Mb download. Cancel that and start the d/l for "just" AVG AV - 50.2Mb again. Thank the Lord for broadband. So what happens after the trial period? If you don't choose the full suite, is all the other fluff/bloat completely removed? I hope they don't make the same mistake Check Point did with ZA users.

The good news is AVG allows AVG AV Pro valid license holders to free upgrades - the bad news is we have to down load the entire suite 50.2Mb suite - want it or not. I'm going to wait a bit for feedback before installing. Will keep you posted.

While I appreciate the fact the lines distinguishing spyware from Trojans, from viruses, from worms are all blurring and intersecting under the single term, "malware" - military background or not, it just does not make sense to put all your faith in a single product, and hope it protects us and our families from bad guys intent on hurting us - not when the physical and mental wellbeing, and lives!!! of our children and grandchildren is a very real possibility! Extreme? Yes. Real? Very!

There are just too many single-points-of-failure with a suite - the failure of any one of the following may render all your defenses totally useless against the bad guys:

• Common UI
• Common databases
• Common update servers/websites
• Common scheduler
• Common installer
• Common dll
• Common algorithms, crystal ball, pair of dice to determine what files to scan
• Common algorithms, etc. to determine what gets put in signature/definition files

All the above are great for the suite makers - tons less overhead and manhours to pay for. Plus, if you buy a suite, you are not purchasing from the competition. Great for the suite makers.

I am not saying they are deceiving users. I am not saying they make bad products. I am just saying their "business plan" is for them to build the most profitable security defense system. Great for the suite makers. But their profits are not my priority. They are not working in the best interest of the near Billion innocent Internet users out there.

I have asked many times and no one has answered - I will ask again, what incentive does the anti-malware industry have to rid the world of malware? None that I see. What about the big telecommunications (Internet backbone) industry? Would they rather get rid of all bandwidth hogging garbage in their pipes and routers, or sell you more bandwidth and horsepower?

When a transparent, non-profit organization, dedicated to blocking malware at the source puts out an effective full suite, I will re-evaluate and consider putting down my arms.

I don't want the entire security decision authority of the computers under my control/responsibility in the hands of a single, small group of people - no matter how well intentioned they are, when their paychecks depend on the bad guy's success and the malware industry thriving!

In the meantime, I have two BOINC machines running AVG Free (for now), Windows Defender, IE7 and Windows Firewall - and darn if they still have yet to be infected, compromised, turned into a zombie, or shanghaied into some badguy's botnet army.
[rant-off]

Originally Posted by Digerati

In the meantime, I have two BOINC machines running AVG Free (for now), Windows Defender, IE7 and Windows Firewall - and darn if they still have yet to be infected, compromised, turned into a zombie, or shanghaied into some badguy's botnet army.

After buying both McAfee and Norton over the years I removed both and advice everyone do so.

Speaking only for home PCs I follow your setup above without the Windows Defender. i.e.
AVG Free (or AVAST!) + IE7 + Windows SP2 Firewall + SpywareBlaster. I also still install SpyBot S&D.

I do not let any install load the "express" button. Choose Advanced and select your own options. Believe me they are not that advanced!


I do not open any e-mail attachments. Never. None.

If a friend wants to send me something there are plenty of web resources for pictures and video and files. E-mail is not a option.

I will not say that I've never explored the red X districts of the internet but even there there are basic signals and precautions thats are very apparent to an aware individual.

My experience here is with neighbors that know I'm into computers (not my profession) and say: "my computer is so slow".

Following such tips as your Malware post and sites like DAL these wrinkles can be ironed out.


Most of the issues I see come from the fact that multiple users use the computer.

The kids load games and click OK on the add-ons etc.


Next thing you have a half dozen Toolbars and pop ups to pop you up.



When one lives in ones own world as I do these issues are moot but perhaps they shed some shadow.


I, personally, have never had such issues but that is in main because of personal education via sites like DAL.

I came here four years ago to ask a question when I had no clue. I've gathered a few clues since then.